As you can see I added new (SMC-pneumatics) cilinders for the forward/backward motion. (Dual) The original cilinders are put also in dual but in this case in push/pull setup. As a compressor I use a hobby-compressor (airpress: 50 ltr tank at 7 bar). With the original valveblock i'm able to operate at appr. 3,5 bar making it really fast in movement. The original frame is modified: -the arms for the rotatingpoint of the chair is longered. -by longering the rotatingpoint is put in front of the base center-gravity-point. -by putting the back of the chair as close as possible to the banking-pivot i'm able to use a 17" CRT monitor (my own body-weight acts as a counterbalance) -the plastic chair is replaced by a race-chair. -6.1 Logitech surround sound installed
The last hardware mod where installing exhaust-speed control valves for enlarging the brake movement time!!
On my wishlist: -modding the valve-control software (that's why i'm on this site!!!)
I've no programming-skills and my German is very bad (reading German is average)
great work, now u have a "Power Ride Chair" made from an normal Rock'n'Ride. With the extra pneumatic u can handle the up-down direction a little better :) I always wonder, where u can get an rock'n'ride outside germany ? Here we got it as mass production for pearl, a company for cheep things. I realy didn't know, that this chair has been exported.
Don't stop to integrate the hardware, but u must know, that the standard settings are special build for rock'n'ride with original components. If u use others, u have to read anything about the valve matrix and to build your own profile for your chair. Programming skills are not needed, but many time for a perfect installation. Overall, i can say, that the first run should work, but it will not be fine tuned. (middle possitions etc.)
All the mods I did are still using the original RnR-controllerboard (7 positions , not the softmotion). I didn't change the left/right banking pivotpoint so it still uses the original position slider. The pivotpoint for the forward/backward motion was put towards the monitor so more of my own bodyweight could be used as a counterweight. With the 17"CRT it's almost perfect. For this motion I still use the original slider. (as you can see in picture 100_0959.jpg) All is setup so it still uses the maximum possible movement.
As mentioned i'm planning an upgrade for the valveblock. Beginning this year I had contact with the company http://www.motion-simulator.de/index.htm , is also http://www.jasys.de , for a to be built USB-controller. Finally they decided not to develop the USB-controller, so after 2½ years of waiting i still had nothing. After they made that decision I called and asked if they could help me become the softmotion-upgrade. They sent me an upgraded PIC but once installed the RnR would move at all!. So stuck again.
Before upgrading the valveblock it's very important for me to have a better controlboard+software. A professional valve block is costly.!! Problem with the original RnR-carprofile is in my opinion the banking direction. When turning to the right (in a carsimulatorgame) the RnR should bank to the left. I haven't been able to change the setup to correct that.
For over a 2 years now i have searched the internet for suitable USB-contollerboards. I have seen your http://www.usbpage.de a few years ago but not been able to follow your mods.
Are your mods made to an original RnR-board? Can you make a complete How-To-Mod manual in for example .PDF? Do you have a complete modded USB-board? (for sale) or can you make one?
All in all i still like the RnR-setup because of the posibillity to use it for flight-sims also. Lately i'm very attracted by the FREX-simulator setup and the big question for me is: -Leave the RnR as it is and change to Frex or devellop the RnR further!.
I mailed Frex to ask if their setup works with GP-4 but as many people complain they are very slow in answering.
>No, you need my USB-Board or the velleman USB board or a parallel Interface (some use it with Relays)
Can you make a complete How-To-Mod manual in for example .PDF?
>No, all the manual is on this page. After building the Interface, u only have to exchange the board. >But when u got it, u can write some for the other users :) I will link it on my page ...
Do you have a complete modded USB-board? (for sale) or can you make one?
>No, my work let me no time, but call nima, he has build some more.
-Leave the RnR as it is and change to Frex or devellop the RnR further!.
>You don't understand the project. This software hacks into ANY game with force feedback. >FREX has some nice games, but will be outdated in some years. >Buy the newest Racedriver or your GP-4 and u can use Yoda to get the force over to the chair at the same day. >Or use the very offen updated MS Flightsim Plugin FSUIPC ... >Better hardware is of course FREX, but with no software u stand where I was with the old R'n'R. >I personaly can only laugh about those concepts. >Better valves u can buy and use it with the matrix. >ps. u can control Frex with some work (Transistors etc.) over my Matrix. >This software is universal designed to get all the old simulators working. >U use the original interface ? then u never get real collisions and actions from the game :)
regarding the Velleman USB , on your site is written Also muss auch hier praktisch eine RnR USB Interface Platine gemacht werden, oder der Aufbau findet auf einer Lochrasterplatine platz. Leider kann hier keine richtige Kalibrierung der Eingangspotis gemacht werden un der Stuhl sollte nur zu 70 % insgesammt ausschlagen (Force-Profiler):
When I buy / or make the complete velleman kit can I directly use it? Why can't a calibration of the Potimeters be done? ->doesn't it use them? Will it be as effectful as your board? ->why is movement limited to 70 %?
Regarding your board: do you have a clearer picture for the board layout? (the layout on page ->nachbau.html doesn't seem the have the correct resolution, when i print it 1:1 scale the edges blur into eachother)
>You don't understand the project. This software hacks into ANY game with force feedback. I understand the project well and support it fully!!
only the software-part and chipprogramming (like HID etc) i dont't. Nobody in my surrounding has the same interest as me , nor programming skills! A few years ago i build a class A stereo tube amplifier , so etching , soldering and wirering i can, smd components are new to me but i think i will manage that!!
basicly "money shouldn't be an object" but in my normal common sense it does. I joined http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=225439 like many others! and it seems many have the same software setup problems! Again I like the RnR concept because of it's simple setup and safety (selfcentering by powerfail , works on low-voltage , only uses clean air) and i'm convinced that if the complet setup works it can easely be used in FREX-like setups for those who want to.
BTW: did you personally write Yoda? -if so very COOOLL! back in the C-64 days i could program i bit but now not anymore!
To the Velleman Interface: You have outputs with 40mA on this board. Many use the output direct without any problems. I personaly make a board (Lochrasterplatine, search on google) with 8 transistors to avoid damage on my board. The shematic is drawed on the page. The ULN endchip costs about 2 euro, so u can also exchange the endchip if it is damaged. Only to avoid programming the chip, u can build my R'n'R board and use the well placed transistors as they are and make some wires from the output of the velleman interface to the resistor of each transistor. (and use the placed poti with wires to the velleman interface)
When I buy / or make the complete velleman kit can I directly use it? Why can't a calibration of the Potimeters be done? > It can /must be done ! But it is an software solution. Better is the R'n'R USB Interface, which stores the endpoints of movements. > The velleman interface has also many bugs on usb. Not big ones, but bugs.
->why is movement limited to 70 %? >It is not, but my chair is with 2bar not fast enough, so smarter movements are faster and make realism !
do you have a clearer picture for the board layout? > go to download page, there is an pdf and hex file.
Nobody in my surrounding has the same interest as me , nor programming skills! >Same as me.
smd components are new to me but i think i will manage that!! >This are very simple SMD devices. At work they are smaller :) >If u cannot see the font on theese chip, it is better to use a stereo microskope for soldering.
selfcentering by powerfail > On power fail, the chair will not do anything ? No control=nomove, or have u build in springs ?
And yes, i wrote yoda as first program after I changed from C64 ... (ok a few years i do nothing) Chipprogramming is done via an extra board, which have to be build (ProPicXP-board and use ICPROG-Software is the easy way).
While your were answering i was out shopping! For now i ordered the VM110 and VM129. Just for time saving , not have to program PIC, and become an tested board. (If in the end it all doesn's come to function it likely better selling) Sadly to hear The velleman interface has also many bugs on usb. Not big ones, but bugs. What kind of bugs are to be expected? -slowlyness, no response, or?
Why can't a calibration of the Potimeters be done? > It can /must be done ! But it is an software solution. Better is the R'n'R USB Interface, which stores the endpoints of movements. I'll studie your RnR USB-Int! but what do you mean by "it is an software solution"?
One bug is, when u start PC an have no velleman software running, all joystick and gameports are blocked. For example u cannot open the Gameoption in windows xp system. After started any demo software the device is exclusiv opened to this software and all works fine. Normaly the control PC (500MHz or above) has no game devices connected, so it will not hurt. The second bug is a reading bug. The device sends every 100ms the state of the potentiometers, so your USB buffer will fill up. Then when u get one value with the software it is the first in the buffer and outdated. U can see this in slow reaktion in the demo software. I wrote a software workaround, which flush the buffer.
To get the maximum endpoint values, the chair moves at calibration up-down-left-right to get the endpoints. This is done in my interface or done as software solution at the velleman software. The values are then stored in registry and have to be corrected, if they don't fit as registry value.
Yesterday I became the VM110 and VM129. tested it with the original velleman software and all seem to function!.
Als Analogen Eingang verwendet das Interface einen Operationsverstärker als Schutz des eigentlichen USB Chips. Dieser hat leider den Nachteil, das er sehr stark verzerrt. Um dies zu vermeiden sollte der IC1 aus der Platine gezogen werden und das Poti direkt an den IC angelötet werden. Dadurch ergeben sich die besten und stabilsten Werte und man braucht nicht ewig an den eingebauten Potis zum Ausgleich drehen.
If the function is to protect IC3 why does it distorts (verzerrt?).(can you explain what is distorted?) In the VM110 you can exchange R8 and R9 to change the gain, can't we use that somehow?
This weekend i'll setup all the hardware (powersupply, VM110 connencted to the VM129 and the valves to the VM129). Are the original valves operated at 12V ?
Did you make your USB-PCB by yourself? I'm thinking of letting for example 10 pc. made and put them for sale in this forum against the manufacturing and transport costs. I think a lot of RnR owners would like that. Would you have problems with that?
the problem is deeper in the opamplifier. The circuit is not proper designed. It is not possible to get 0 to 5 Volts, because the opamp will limit to about 4 Volts. So the AD-converter of the PIC chip cannot get 0-255 = 0-5V, only he gets up to about 4 Volts. Test the ranges with your settings ... i am not happy about that.
The Valves are 12V.
U can sell the PCB as u want, but i don't think there are other R'n'R Fan's anymore. As u said, there are not many with the same hobby. Be only sure not to sell the chip with more money that u has spend, because the USBID is microchip and only usable as test or noncomercial. Dont forget using latest beta-version.
Yesterday I setup the VM110 + VM129 and did some testing. With the onboard potentio's no problem getting 5V on Pin 2 ,3 of the pic. Next thing was to setup with new extern potentio's. This also seems no problem getting 5V on the Pic pins. (measured ± 5,25 V) The K8055 software does display 0 - 255 for resp. the full potentio travel.
Great problem came with the VM129 connected. When activating all the relais it seemed to have a current problem. So i removed setup (on the VM129) of the power AC 12V input. (removed 4 diodes + capacitor). This way I could have 12V Dc directly connected. Now everything seems to be fine. The new potentio PCB is made and ready to be put in. I'll do this at the same time I change the cennections for air-blockvalves.
I noticed the new software you put on for download (12-10-2006). What are the major changes?
When time comes and I have realised a good setup i'll make a small manual for the work i did towards the VM110 & VM129 so you can use it for your website!.
The changes are in pluginhandling (fastaccess via menue) and a slight problem with menue entry (Velleman interface marker does not come after restart of Profiler).
As next a video plugin will be released, then Force Profiler 1.6 with a second velleman interface support.
It seems i've the VM110 working! I can let it move from within the profiler and even correct the centersettings. For now i've trouble using Yoda2 to make my own profile of Rfactor!
attached screendump shows a lot of info. During the game only red marked value's change. They are almost always under an expandable + under a DirectX-component. How must i export them.? If I understand corectly i've to couple the chairmovements in profiler!
Can you for Gp4 explain how to use the .dll and the panel.ini (in your screendump on x-sim.de) What is to be loaded in Yoda?
For rFactor i will add an .yef that someone has send me a long time ago. It is not finished, but he said there are two effekt which will be redetected and would be usable as crash and curbs. I saw he forgot to use the ignore list, but i also saw a bad describtion on my homepage a few days ago, so he had no chance to get it working. Perhaps u can use the file and correct it a little bit and post your success to this forum.
You have to expand the red marked + and you can only export the opened effekts (should also be red). I fit is to fast, use the Button "expand all" and notice the export decription on the x-sim page. Then you can use this effekts in the profiler to make some reaktions on the chair.
In GP4 download the GPx Plugin, install it and then do the screenshot like actions in GPx. After this only choose the GPx Plugin in the Force-Sender and start sending. You should now see the values in Force-Profiler (also the Joystick values). Yoda is not needed in this case but u could use some effekts also.
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